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REMOVED THIS COMMENT AS IT IS NOT NEEDED>109.159.191.147 (talk) 12:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OBJECTIVITY IS REQUIRED MORE THAN SUBJECTIVITY

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y do indians always put their own ideas in watever they r writing on the net,protraying pakistan as a demon and india as a hero?! wat loot and rape? havent u read "raw and bangladesh" by zain-ul-abidin and "blood and tears" by qutbuddin aziz????? first read them then give ur wikipedia (sickipedia) articles. and for heavens dnt give ur personnel views in it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.156.69.98 (talk) 07:06, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:ChawindaBattel.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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not supported by source

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"From the mass of evidence coming before the War Enquiry Commission from witnesses, both civil and military, there is little doubt that Niazi came to acquire a bad reputation in sex matters, and this reputation has been consistent during his postings in Sialkot, Lahore and East Pakistan.[63] The allegations regarding his indulgence in the export of Pan by using or abusing his position in the Eastern Command and as Commander of his command also prima facie appear to be well-founded.[64]"

Not only is this poorly written but the sources does not support it, can we delete it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.175.178.17 (talk) 15:34, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mention common name

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At the Article’s beginning there should be featured
“commonly known as General Niazi” 49.185.149.109 (talk) 08:35, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

please re-add a removed information piece by vandal

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the following edit of 18:53, 28 June 2023‎ by User:Tayyib M221 has removed the "Punjabi" part from the subject's early life ethnic background.

Could it please be added back RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 17:17, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tall tale

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The origin of a statement in this article appears to be a 2003 op-ed by Sarmila Bose in the Pakistani Daily Times where she wrote:

Only two ‘Indian’ officers were chosen to be decorated by the Viceroy at that ceremony — ‘Tiger’ Niazi was one of them.

— Sarmila Bose (24 November 2003). "The courageous Pak army stand on the eastern front". Daily Times (Op-ed). Archived from the original on 2004-08-14.

WP:RSEDITORIAL warns that op-eds "are rarely reliable for statements of fact". They don't undergo the same fact-checking process as a newspaper's news content. They are sometimes written by academics, but don't undergo peer review as scholarship does. WP:REDFLAG says "any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources". Extensive Google searches and searches of WP:TWL databases found no repetition of the above claim in a reliable source.

Ironboy11 added Bose's statement in this edit on 8 July 2011. A week later, he changed it to:

Only two Indian officers were chosen to be decorated by the Viceroy at that ceremony — ‘Tiger’ Niazi was one of them and the other being Lieutenant Sam Manekshaw.

He received a strong warning in August 2011, his last before being blocked indefinitely, about original research.

He seems to have taken a story from a questionable source and embellished it. Like a good hoax/lie, it has elements of truth. However, it's highly unlikely that out of all the Indians who received awards for the Burma Campaign, only these two would have been chosen to be decorated by the Viceroy at that particular ceremony. If it had really happened that way, and if it were important, someone else would have written about it somewhere more reliable than a modern day newspaper op-ed.

Therefore, I've removed the story. If anyone can identify multiple high-quality sources that recount Niazi's involvement in it, they're welcome to add it back. --Worldbruce (talk) 08:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2024

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Nabilahammed02 (talk) 14:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan army Eastern command

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 18:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Punjabi?

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@RevolutionaryPatriot:, I’m bringing this to your attention since you recently reverted an edit related to Niazi’s ethnicity.

You added here that Niazi came from a "mixed Punjabi and Pathan family of the Niazi tribe", of course, without providing any source. There is no reliable source provided for this claim, especially the "Punjabi" part. Per Wikipedia policy:

WP:V requires verifiability for any material that is likely to be challenged.

WP:NPOV obliges to avoid adding unsourced or one-sided ethnic claims.

WP:ETHNICITY Extra care must be taken when assigning ethnicity, especially if not explicitly self-identified in reliable sources

Unless you can provide a reliable, published source verifying this "mixed Punjabi and Pathan" background, the claim should be removed or revised.

Also, I respectfully ask that you refrain from calling editors "disruptive" in edit summaries. That kind of personal labeling is not constructive and undermines collaborative editing.

This is especially important given your own recent article-space block, and only just returned, a pattern we should all try to move past. Let’s focus on the content and follow policy, not resort to labels or personal commentary.  

Looking forward to a constructive response. JayFT047 (talk) 07:22, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, Punjabi speaking people of Punjab with distant ancestral Pashtun heritage would've been initially described as such in the several years back when that edit was made. An article was created for Punjabi-Pathans like General Niazi to better explain mixed Punjabi and Pathan identity. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 08:49, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your response. However, the revised phrasing "Punjabi-Pathan family" still reflects the same unsourced assertion as the original. The term implies a mixed ethnic ancestry, which requires a reliable source to verify.
I’ve found and attached a reliable source that clearly states: “Lt Gen. Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi, the Eastern Commander, was also a Pathan born in Punjab.” This phrasing distinguishes between ethnicity (Pathan) and birthplace (Punjab), without blending them into an unsourced ethnic category like "Punjabi-Pathan."
This respects WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:ETHNICITY, and avoids speculative or synthesized identity claims. JayFT047 (talk) 09:24, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
mixed ethnic ancestry
That is what Indian Pathans and Pathans of Punjab are. Their identity is not Punjabi as an ethnicity but it is apart of their ethnic make-up and their ancestral home and villages in addition to linguistic identity, as they are speakers of Punjabi and Hindustani, not an Iranian language.
The "I" can be removed despite the matter of common name. But the identity, a prominent one in Pakistan called Punjabi-Pathans is the subject's identification, as is Punjab an ancestral home of Indian/Punjabi Pathans for centuries. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 12:00, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
blending them into an unsourced ethnic category like "Punjabi-Pathan."
That is exactly what he is. "Punjabi" are an ethnolinguistic group associated with the Punjab region to which the subject belongs to ancestrally. His identity is called Punjabi-Pathan which is a matter that remains.
Your matter of removal of the letter 'i' is irrelevant because there isn't any confusion of the subject being of an ethnicity that they are not due to it being their very name.
The subject needs to be called as he is a Punjabi-Pathan for an appropriate article wording. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 04:06, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Your continued insistence on labelling General Niazi as "Punjabi-Pathan" is not supported by any reliable, published source explicitly describing him with that term. Repeating unsourced personal interpretations, no matter how common you believe the identity is, is a clear violation of WP:V, WP:NOR, WP:NPOV and WP:ETHNICITY. These core policies make clear that ethnic or identity-based claims must be explicitly verifiable and should not be added unless directly supported by reliable sources.
“That is what Indian Pathans and Pathans of Punjab are.”
That may well be the case in a general sociological context, but Wikipedia doesn’t allow synthesizing such generalised facts and assigning them to a specific individual without a direct source. The article you mention, or any broader ethnographic context, is not a substitute for verifiable, subject-specific sourcing. See WP:SYNTH.  
“Their identity is not Punjabi as an ethnicity but it is apart of their ethnic make-up...”
This is circular logic that only reinforces your original synthesis. You're arguing that the he is of Punjabi ethnicity, but not really, yet that it should still be stated in the article. This only proves how speculative and interpretive your reasoning is. Wikipedia does not base content on what might be inferred about someone’s ethnic “make-up.” It is based on what reliable sources explicitly say.
“The identity, a prominent one in Pakistan called Punjabi-Pathans, is the subject's identification.”
Again, unless you can provide a source where Niazi or a reputable publication describes him specifically as a Punjabi-Pathan or even Punjabi, this is meaningless. Broad usage of the identity in Pakistan does not grant license to apply it to a historical figure unless a reputable source connects it to the subject. Otherwise, this constitutes a clear violation of WP:V and WP:ETHNICITY.
“That is exactly what he is... The subject needs to be called as he is a Punjabi-Pathan for an appropriate article wording.”
No, that is your assertion, not Wikipedia’s. Wikipedia does not “need” to do anything simply because you believe something is accurate. It needs to follow policy, verifiability, and consensus. We follow sources, not personal conviction. That alone was a major factor in your recent article-space block, and it’s concerning to see the same pattern resurfacing so soon after your return.
Also, the argument over the letter “i” in “Punjabi” is completely irrelevant. There is no reliable source that states General Niazi as Punjabi. The discussion is not about formatting, it’s about unsourced content being inserted into an article in violation of policy.
I’ve already cited a reliable source stating Niazi was a "Pathan born in Punjab." That phrasing respects his verifiable ethnic identity and birthplace without inserting speculative or blended identity labels. Your version introduces a composite ethnic designation that no source directly attributes to Niazi himself.  
As a reminder, you have very recently returned from an article-space block resulting from failure to follow core content policies and engage constructively. You are now again inserting unsourced ethnic identifiers into a sensitive article in a contentious topic area, and refusing to recognise clearly established sourcing standards.
If you wish to add “Punjabi-Pathan” to the article, you must provide a reliable source that explicitly applies that identity to General Niazi. Until then, the article will reflect the sourced, neutral description: “Pathan born in Punjab.” Any further attempts to override this without a source will be escalated, and I will not hesitate to bring this to relevant noticeboards if necessary. JayFT047 (talk) 00:49, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The word and identity of Punjabi-Pathan exists and is what you call them. The word "Punjabi" is at core tied to a linguistic and geographic identity, not an ethnic once, that would only be the case if he was only designated as a "Punjabi" or "Punjabi-Muslim" which is not his identity. But someone can still be called a Punjabi-Pathan and Punjabi language poet.
A book[1] mentioned Punjabi-Pathan identity for those settled in colonies of Punjab (which Niazi definitionally is) and distinguish themselves from "Pashto speaking North Pathans" referring to themselves as "Punjab Pathans".
Or in the context of discrimination[2] in East Pakistan the identity is also used in contrast to the Bengalis with the "Punjabi-Pathans" [meaning Pathans settled in the Punjab].
source that states General Niazi as Punjabi
Why would a source call him that? What are you talking about?
The term implies a mixed ethnic ancestry
Where does the article for Punjabi-Pathans mention ethnicity even once?
“Punjabi-Pathan” to the article, you must provide a reliable source that explicitly
Matching the definition of his identity, in addition to an entire wiki article being created about it is not "original research" it is simply what he is.
The connection you personally made revolving around the letter 'i' doesn't take back the writings of decades of book publications on the topic of local identity and regional political history. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 09:53, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You keep pushing this “Punjabi-Pathan” label, yet no source ascribe the Punjabi label to General Niazi.  
So let’s be direct:  
Are you suggesting he was ethnically Punjabi? That would be factually incorrect. Every source describes him as a Pathan/Pashtun. If you’re now saying “Punjabi” isn’t meant as an ethnic label, then there’s no reason to use the ambiguous identity “Punjabi-Pathan” in the first place. That phrasing clearly implies a blended cultural or ethnic identity, not just language or location. The “Pathan born in Punjab” or even "Pathan of Punjab" article you keep citing already covers that accurately, without confusion.
Are you saying he was of mixed Punjabi and Pathan ancestry? Then that’s a biographical claim that requires a specific source. You still haven’t provided one.
Or are you just saying he was a Pashtun who lived in Punjab or spoke Punjabi? That’s already covered in the sourced and neutral description: “Pathan born in Punjab.”
Your use of “Punjabi-Pathan” floats somewhere in the middle, a vague, synthesis-driven hybrid identity that blurs lines between ethnicity, geography, and language. That kind of ambiguity violates WP:ETHNICITY, which says identities should be clearly sourced and not inferred. And it invites confusion, especially in a biography of a controversial military figure under discretionary sanctions.  
Again: Punjabi and Pashtun are entirely distinct ethnic groups, different languages, different histories, different cultural identities. Combining them in a single label without a clear, sourced explanation is not informative, it’s misleading.  
So here's the bottom line, once again:
If you are claiming Niazi had Punjabi ethnic ancestry, provide a source.
If you are claiming mixed heritage, provide a source.
If you're simply saying he was Pashtun, from Punjab, we already have a sourced, neutral version that states exactly that: “Pathan of Punjab.
You’ve repeatedly cited the existence of the article Pathans of Punjab as justification for using the label “Punjabi-Pathan.” But that article itself uses the term “Pathans of Punjab,” which is exactly what the article now reflects.
That’s accurate, neutral, and supported by the sources we have, including the one that says “Pathan born in Punjab.” It reflects both his ethnic identity and regional background without making unsourced or blended identity claims like “Punjabi-Pathan,” which is not used in reference to him anywhere in the sources. So I genuinely don’t understand what you're still objecting to. The current phrasing matches the article you keep referencing, respects sourcing, and avoids confusion. If there's a reliable source that directly ascribe the “Punjabi” ethnicity to him, feel free to share it, but if not, every source describes him as a Pathan/Pashtun. The current wording is already the most accurate and policy-compliant version.
Anything else is just speculative rebranding, and that’s not what Wikipedia is for.
Stop dodging the core issue. Provide a source that applies the label Punjabi-Pathan or heck even the Punjabi label to General Niazi, otherwise the label does not belong in the article. JayFT047 (talk) 13:00, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Muslims by S.H.M. Rizvi, Shibani Roy, & B.B. Dutta (1998)
  2. ^ Visibilities and Invisibilities of Race and Racism: Toward a New Global Dialogue (2025) Faye V. Harrison, Yasuko I. Takezawa, Akio Tanabe
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